> It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

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Tom Leykis
#1 2018-04-14 15:52:28

It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

U.S. Department of Transportation announces it will audit the High-Speed Rail Project


Friday, April 13, 2018 11:13AM
The U.S. Department of Transportation announced Friday that they will audit the High-Speed Rail project.

The audit will begin in April and will be done in addition to the audit that is already ongoing by the California State Auditor.

The Department of Transportation said given the significant funds provided to the California High-Speed Rail Authority for high-speed rail, the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committees Chairman of the House Subcommittee on Railroads, Pipelines, and Hazardous Materials requested the review.

abc30.com/politics/us-department-of-transportation-announces-it-will-audit-the-high-speed-rail-project/3337904/

**  You can see the beginning and the end of the project in one photo.  Why in the FUQ are they building the rails 80 feet in the air in the middle of the fuqing desert?  Corruption! **

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Matt_Maupin
#2 2018-04-14 15:54:10

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Why do you hate Barstow?

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Tom Leykis
#3 2018-04-14 16:07:29

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Matt_Maupin wrote:

Why do you hate Barstow?

Barstow is fine, if you're into that sort of thing.  Wasting tens of billions of OUR dollars on an 80 foot in the sky rail line between Barstow and Merced - THAT I have a problem with.

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Caitlyn Dolezal
#4 2018-04-15 07:32:17

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Tom Leykis wrote:

**  You can see the beginning and the end of the project in one photo.  Why in the FUQ are they building the rails 80 feet in the air in the middle of the fuqing desert?  Corruption! **

Yeah, that has to be the reason. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with why every other high-speed rail system on the planet has extensive elevated sections, which is to allow the entire track to operate at as close to zero grade as possible to reduce power consumption, it has to be "corruption".

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Ho Chi Minh
#5 2018-04-15 11:42:00

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Caitlyn Dolezal wrote:

Yeah, that has to be the reason. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with why every other high-speed rail system on the planet has extensive elevated sections, which is to allow the entire track to operate at as close to zero grade as possible to reduce power consumption, it has to be "corruption".

The Japanese Shinkansen is not completely elevated.

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WithoutFroth
#6 2018-04-15 12:14:34

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Caitlyn Dolezal wrote:

Yeah, that has to be the reason. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with why every other high-speed rail system on the planet has extensive elevated sections, which is to allow the entire track to operate at as close to zero grade as possible to reduce power consumption, it has to be "corruption".

Why is the Texas High Speed Rail being constructed so much faster than California's?

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Caitlyn Dolezal
#7 2018-04-15 12:15:01

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Ho Chi Minh wrote:

The Japanese Shinkansen is not completely elevated.

I never said it was, just that it had elevated sections.  The Chinese system is the same - if possible, they run the lines at ground level or close enough they can just build an embankment, but if they need to stick the line on a viaduct to keep it level they do.

To be honest, I don't know the details of the proposed CA HSR system, but normally the level of the track will be set by the lowest practical track height at the point that has the highest ground elevation, so if the first part you actually build is at a point on the line that has substantially lower ground level then it will all be elevated.

I was just taking issue with Tom's claim that it had to be "corruption" when in fact there are obvious engineering reasons why a certain section of the line is up in the air.

Taking your Shinkansen example, not just the track but the whole station at Shin-Osaka is up in the air - with enough clearance that the tokaido mainline station fits underneath it.

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Caitlyn Dolezal
#8 2018-04-15 12:20:24

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

WithoutFroth wrote:

Why is the Texas High Speed Rail being constructed so much faster than California's?

I don't know the details of that, either - but having lived in CA I would assume that the CA approach to environmental impact assessments has a lot to do with it.  In CA, there are a whole bunch of things that can easily fuq up projects and add years to the timelines.  Not so much in TX.

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WithoutFroth
#9 2018-04-15 12:39:59

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Caitlyn Dolezal wrote:

I don't know the details of that, either - but having lived in CA I would assume that the CA approach to environmental impact assessments has a lot to do with it.  In CA, there are a whole bunch of things that can easily fuq up projects and add years to the timelines.  Not so much in TX.

Or, and I'm just spitballing here, there are highly corrupt unions in California that are not as prevalent in Texas?

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Caitlyn Dolezal
#10 2018-04-15 12:45:04

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

WithoutFroth wrote:

Or, and I'm just spitballing here, there are highly corrupt unions in California that are not as prevalent in Texas?

That doesn't really make any sense though - what possible incentives would the union have to needlessly protract the planning phase?  Surely that would want to get the project actually in the implementation stage and then stretch that out as long as possible?

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WithoutFroth
#11 2018-04-15 12:47:38

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Caitlyn Dolezal wrote:

That doesn't really make any sense though - what possible incentives would the union have to needlessly protract the planning phase?  Surely that would want to get the project actually in the implementation stage and then stretch that out as long as possible?

There are billions of "free government money" at stake here.  My guess is that a multitude of groups (all of which are owed a favor by the Democrat establishment) that are doing everything, in everyway, to cash in.

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Tom Leykis
#12 2018-04-15 12:48:44

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Caitlyn Dolezal wrote:

Yeah, that has to be the reason. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with why every other high-speed rail system on the planet has extensive elevated sections, which is to allow the entire track to operate at as close to zero grade as possible to reduce power consumption, it has to be "corruption".

You have obviously never been to central California.  Between Barstow and Merced, the tallest natural obstructions are made by gophers. 

You have obviously not been watching the California politicians.  Corrupt is just the beginning with them.  Our last republican governor wound up knocking up the capitol maid.

Yeah, it's corruption and a Federal audit is going to be like mining a cesspool - they're going to find shyt everywhere!

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Caitlyn Dolezal
#13 2018-04-15 13:06:18

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Tom Leykis wrote:

You have obviously never been to central California.  Between Barstow and Merced, the tallest natural obstructions are made by gophers. 

You have obviously not been watching the California politicians.  Corrupt is just the beginning with them.  Our last republican governor wound up knocking up the capitol maid.

Yeah, it's corruption and a Federal audit is going to be like mining a cesspool - they're going to find shyt everywhere!

OK, to repeat, "the height you have to build the track is set by the minimum elevation of the highest point on the line" is the key point here.  Saying "it doesn't need to be that high there" is true, but it's also irrelevant - unless you think it would make more sense to build that track section at ground level and then demolish and rebuild it once the rest of the line is built because it isn't at the same level.

And, incidentally, I used to live in CA, so I am well aware of the level of bullshyt involved with the politics there (which is a large part of the reason I don't live there anymore).  I'm just saying that claiming that the fact that the first section of the line being built is all elevated is prima facie evidence of corruption is wrong, since there are perfectly valid engineering reasons to do that.

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Caitlyn Dolezal
#14 2018-04-15 13:10:33

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

WithoutFroth wrote:

There are billions of "free government money" at stake here.  My guess is that a multitude of groups (all of which are owed a favor by the Democrat establishment) that are doing everything, in everyway, to cash in.

OK, but how does delaying the project with planning bullshyt do that?

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WithoutFroth
#15 2018-04-15 13:57:30

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Caitlyn Dolezal wrote:

OK, but how does delaying the project with planning bullshyt do that?

It's not being delayed
They are doing a
Ground inspection
Utility inspection
Environmental impact inspection
blue sky inspection
auditing inspection
inspection inspection

These things take lots of (over)time, no show jobs and MONEY.

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Tom Leykis
#16 2018-04-15 14:47:26

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

OK, so they're building the Barstow to Merced segment.  There is NO PLAN and NO WAY they're going to get a passenger tunnel through to Los Angeles, so what's REALLY going on?

Corruption, that's what.

Last year, the democrats used their super majority to pass a new gas tax (12 cents per gallon) and registration fee hike ($100+ per car per year), but they lacked ONE VOTE to get it through.

Here comes the one republican member from Merced.  He SOLD his vote, in exchange for the state funding a rail segment from San Jose to - you guessed it - Merced.

Yep, they funded it, using the gas tax money.  (Apparently "road" taxes apply to railroads).

So, what's the point?

IMHO, you get a high speed rail line from Silicon Valley to the central valley.  Now, the trev techies can commute to new homes in the valley.  Techies tend to be liberals, and will displace the more conservative folks who live there now, tilting the balance of power to the democrats even further and forever.

THAT'S CORRUPTION!

But, a Federal audit may change their plans.

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Bagger Landlord Cable Co.
#17 2018-04-15 14:59:17

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

There is a bunch of high ground around LA.

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Tom Leykis
#18 2018-04-15 15:18:09

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Bagger Landlord Cable Co. wrote:

There is a bunch of high ground around LA.

One hundred miles away.

https://www.distancecalculator.net/from … akersfield

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Bagger Landlord Cable Co.
#19 2018-04-15 16:48:48

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Tom Leykis wrote:

One hundred miles away.

https://www.distancecalculator.net/from … akersfield

That route goes over the "Grapevine"

The Grapevine, a road grade from Grapevine, California, that leads up the Tehachapi Mountains to the Tejon Pass, connecting the California Central Valley with the Los Angeles area

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Phillip_McCavity
#20 2018-04-15 16:55:57

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Well good.

California was told that 100 million people a year would ride HSR and that it would turn $1 billion in profit.

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Bagger Landlord Cable Co.
#21 2018-04-15 17:10:09

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Tom Leykis wrote:

One hundred miles away.

https://www.distancecalculator.net/from … akersfield

I thought the train was going to Barstow?

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Phillip_McCavity
#22 2018-04-15 18:09:11

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Bagger Landlord Cable Co. wrote:

I thought the train was going to Barstow?

This is actually the elephant in the room.

The law that authorized HSR gave the project specific requirements. First, the travel time must be 2:20. Second, the terminal points for LA and SF are written into the law -- and for SF its the transbay terminal.

This presents a number of problems right off the bat. In order to get the travel time there can be few to no stops, but in order to sell the project to communities they need to have a stop. In order to get the terminal points the line needs to be as short as possible, but many communities want service.

What they should have done:

1. Always have the train stop at the airport. A huge use case for HSR is people using it instead of a short haul flight. So in order to make it work, it needs to be as convenient as possible to transfer to the airport. Consider even a redesign of the airport entry so it is even faster to get on the aircraft if you arrive by train, like pre-check bags on the train so you get off and walk directly through security.

2. Separate commuter rail from inter-city rail, economically and in most cases, rail separate them too. I love commuter rail, but to make it work efficiently it needs many outbound lines that converge.

3. Use existing rights of way and medians for HSR unless there are no alternatives. In most cases, it should run along an existing highway, preferably an interstate.

4. Work out the regulations in advance. The federal government has never licensed a rail service of this speed and sophistication.

5. Investigate and, if possible, prosecute the people who willingly mislead the public on this.

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Tom Leykis
#23 2018-04-15 18:31:18

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

5. Investigate and, if possible, prosecute the people who willingly mislead the public on this.

Maybe that's why they're building that segment so high in the air.  Something to jump off of when they get caught.

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Bagger Landlord Cable Co.
#24 2018-04-15 18:42:45

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

The Wikipedia article says Bakersfield not Barstow.  I guess the future line to Vegas will connect Barstow to LA. When I Lived in LA, a train to Vegas would have been nice. The drive back on a Sunday afternoon could be dreadful.

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Phillip_McCavity
#25 2018-04-15 18:48:21

Re: It looks like the high flying liberals are about to get their wings clipped!

Bagger Landlord Cable Co. wrote:

The Wikipedia article says Bakersfield not Barstow.  I guess the future line to Vegas will connect Barstow to LA. When I Lived in LA, a train to Vegas would have been nice. The drive back on a Sunday afternoon could be dreadful.

There is private funding to that line, which shows that it makes financial sense.

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