> Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

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Phillip_McCavity
#1 2018-05-15 17:10:35

Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

This article is interesting. I don't think a few changes in agricultural tariffs is a fair negotiating trade for the ZTE block. In particular, China has a history of announcing trade changes and either not following through or just substituting some other barrier.

The US government has to go through certain legal processes before it can take actions, but the Chinese government can take action rapidly. That difference has to be built into whatever we negotiate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/jos … e-of-them/

My Washington Post colleagues reported that Trump may have gotten ahead of a brewing “mini-deal” whereby the United States provides relief for ZTE and, in return, China eases its restrictions on U.S. agricultural imports. If that’s the case, the Trump administration “just got blackmailed,” according to Derek Scissors, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

“Our actions against ZTE might have been excessive, but what you can’t do is say, ‘Just kidding’ when the Chinese start complaining about it,” he said. “The idea that we did it and then reversed ourselves is awful.”

As I’ve written before, a short-term deal would a penny-wise, pound-foolish approach, because confronting China’s large-scale unfair and illegal practices should be an urgent strategic priority. The United States gets one shot to show China that we are serious about forcing it to change its behavior — and, if it won’t, that we are serious about defending ourselves.

Trump is signaling he’s willing to give up the one piece of leverage that is actually getting the Chinese government’s attention before receiving anything concrete in return. That’s not only bad negotiating. It also sends the message that the United States doesn’t have the stomach for the larger economic battles with China to come.

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#2 2018-05-15 17:13:56

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

washington post. do you have an analysis from a legit source?

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Curl Sagan
#3 2018-05-15 18:05:22

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

wrote:

washington post. do you have an analysis from a legit source?

Agreed, that's a terrible analysis. Almost embarrassingly so.

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bandman
#4 2018-05-15 18:38:06

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Art of the deal.  Watch and be amazed.

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Dindo Nuffins
#5 2018-05-15 18:47:54

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Oh well, at least he's not a smelly old lady or a shiftless negroe.

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Sockpuppet
#6 2018-05-15 18:55:14

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

ZTE is a spy agency. Trump is ensuring China can still spy on the US.

KEEP CHINA GREAT ALWAYS!
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Diarrhetrius Brown
#7 2018-05-15 19:02:00

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

wrote:

washington post. do you have an analysis from a legit source?

The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bozo who is, most likely anyway, the biggest trader with China.

Of course he wouldn't want Trump to fuq up his special deals.

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Dindo Nuffins
#8 2018-05-15 19:02:42

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

So you don't think all teh other electronic shyt you have aren't spy devices? 

Pro tip - if you have a smartphone they can spy anytime they want.  The only way around it is to pull the battery.

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Phillip_McCavity
#9 2018-05-15 19:48:48

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Dindo Nuffins wrote:

So you don't think all teh other electronic shyt you have aren't spy devices? 

Pro tip - if you have a smartphone they can spy anytime they want.  The only way around it is to pull the battery.

Yeah, I don't buy the national security angle, at least for individual devices. Maybe for large routers, but even then...

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Phillip_McCavity
#10 2018-05-15 19:50:15

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

bandman wrote:

Art of the deal.  Watch and be amazed.

You mean, watch China wipe the floor with us.

Trump is amazing easy to manipulate and doesn't think about complexity (hence, demanding only 5 pages of information).

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.
#11 2018-05-15 21:58:17

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

I didn't cave!  The Chinese government is financing a Trump Org project to the tune of $500M!
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Obamaphone Connoisseur
#12 2018-05-15 22:06:06

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

We are getting new upgraded Obamaphones!

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Phillip_McCavity
#13 2018-05-16 00:43:16

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

. wrote:

I didn't cave!  The Chinese government is financing a Trump Org project to the tune of $500M!
       \

An interesting story as well.

When you work for a large company, they train you in the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and they tell you that you should never give a gift to any government official, nor do anything to help their families.

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Curl Sagan
#14 2018-05-16 01:02:58

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Phillip_McCavity wrote:

You mean, watch China wipe the floor with us.

Trump is amazing easy to manipulate and doesn't think about complexity (hence, demanding only 5 pages of information).

I would say it's you who doesn't think about complexity. You're taking a child-like view of this thing. For one, you're acting like everything is done. Neither China trade negotiations, North Korea negotiations, nor Iran negotiations are finished, so you're being a bit premature.

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Phillip_McCavity
#15 2018-05-16 01:20:44

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Curl Sagan wrote:

I would say it's you who doesn't think about complexity. You're taking a child-like view of this thing. For one, you're acting like everything is done. Neither China trade negotiations, North Korea negotiations, nor Iran negotiations are finished, so you're being a bit premature.

The fact that Trump would trade national security for trade, when the two are separate, is very interesting. No responsible leader in either party thinks that is wise.

A wise thing would have been to keep the US in the TPP, which deprived China of trade leadership and power. But Trump is too stupid to get that.

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Curl Sagan
#16 2018-05-16 16:25:56

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Phillip_McCavity wrote:

The fact that Trump would trade national security for trade, when the two are separate, is very interesting. No responsible leader in either party thinks that is wise.

A wise thing would have been to keep the US in the TPP, which deprived China of trade leadership and power. But Trump is too stupid to get that.

No, national security and trade are closely linked.  That's that child-like view I'm talking about. How  do you presume to know the mind of leaders? Got a quote talking about the distinction between national security and trade? I can't imagine that you'll find one.

The TPP was terrible. It is dead. Let it go.

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Phillip_McCavity
#17 2018-05-16 17:10:26

Re: Trump caves into one of China's crazy demands

Curl Sagan wrote:

No, national security and trade are closely linked.  That's that child-like view I'm talking about. How  do you presume to know the mind of leaders? Got a quote talking about the distinction between national security and trade? I can't imagine that you'll find one.

Knowing Trump's mind is easy, some transcripts of his phone calls were released and it is easy to see that he doesn't listen to professionals but simply says the thing of the hour.

ZTE was an enforcement action, not a trade action. See https://www.commerce.gov/sites/commerce … order.pdf. The US cannot issue enforcement actions only to flip flop after a phone call promising something that might be for something that is.

The correct response from Trump needed to be "Hey Xi, I'm sorry about your workers, but your company acted in bad faith and undermined US sanctions."

Curl Sagan wrote:

The TPP was terrible. It is dead. Let it go.

Pulling out of it only have China more power to determine trade rules, and undermined US leadership. It happened because Trump has absolutely zero understanding of how to carry out negotiations between nations. Obama did, that is why the TPP would have completely opened markets in Japan, Malaysia, and more importantly, it would have replaced NAFTA with additional labor and environmental standards.

https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/ab … leadership

The underlying assumption is that, as a wide-ranging partnership, the TPP would serve as a counterweight to the ambition of a rising China.

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