> I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Pages: 1 2

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#1 2019-03-13 22:51:31

I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

The same people who fund your organizations are the same ones who have been employing the "illegals" for decades because they wanted to avoid having to pay you a living wage.  The same is true for them outsourcing production to Mexico and China.

Then you go and elect an ACTOR who inherited hundreds of millions before he even turned 18 abd whom has never worked an honest blue collar or any other real job for that matter in this entire life.

MAGA!  SEND THEM BACK!
\

........................................................................

WithoutFroth
#2 2019-03-13 23:31:07

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

The same people who fund your organizations are the same ones who have been employing the "illegals" for decades because they wanted to avoid having to pay you a living wage.

That's kind of the reason working class people are anti-immigration.

You were saying something about being dumb...

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#3 2019-03-13 23:44:51

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

WithoutFroth wrote:

The same people who fund your organizations are the same ones who have been employing the "illegals" for decades because they wanted to avoid having to pay you a living wage.

That's kind of the reason working class people are anti-immigration.

You were saying something about being dumb...

It's really about just getting you riled up and  pushing through pro-top 1% legislation.  The very people funding your party are the ones responsible for the "problem".  That is my point.   They employed the immigrants because they would work for less and with fewer complaints.  The immigrants largely came here to get employment.  You do the math...

The same with all the factory jobs being outsourced to Mexico and China.  Just who do you think owns those factories and made the decisions to fire the Americans and move to Mexico??  The Socialists?!  No.  It was the people like the Koch brothers.  You're simply their pawn and the anti-immigrant stuff is just there to keep you riled up and so that you blame the immigrants rather than the billionaires who are actually employing them and outsourcing your job to China.

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#4 2019-03-13 23:50:32

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Honestly now.  All bullshyt partisan politics aside:

Imagine what the U.S. would be like now if most of the manufacturing jobs weren't outsourced to Mexico and China 10-20 years ago.  All of those jobs paid a living wage and then some.  Almost all of them are gone now.  Yes, Bill Clinton signed NAFTA.  But also the billionaires YOU SUPPORT are the same people who owned those damn factories and SOLD YOU AND I OUT.

........................................................................

WithoutFroth
#5 2019-03-13 23:52:26

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

It's really about just getting you riled up and  pushing through pro-top 1% legislation.  The very people funding your party are the ones responsible for the "problem".  That is my point.   They employed the immigrants because they would work for less and with fewer complaints.  The immigrants largely came here to get employment.  You do the math...

The same with all the factory jobs being outsourced to Mexico and China.  Just who do you think owns those factories and made the decisions to fire the Americans and move to Mexico??  The Socialists?!  No.  It was the people like the Koch brothers.  You're simply their pawn and the anti-immigrant stuff is just there to keep you riled up and so that you blame the immigrants rather than the billionaires who are actually employing them and outsourcing your job to China.

Most of the largest companies are publicly traded.  They will have millions of individual investors.  The primary decision makers would be the C level executives and BoD.

I will actually grant your point an d admit that there is is a little misdirection going on here however that doesn't take away from the fundamental point that a nation should control its borders.  Many would argue that is one of the definitions of a nation.

........................................................................

time is the master
#6 2019-03-13 23:57:27

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

BAGGERS!!!
\

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#7 2019-03-14 00:08:01

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

WithoutFroth wrote:

Most of the largest companies are publicly traded.  They will have millions of individual investors.  The primary decision makers would be the C level executives and BoD.

I will actually grant your point an d admit that there is is a little misdirection going on here however that doesn't take away from the fundamental point that a nation should control its borders.  Many would argue that is one of the definitions of a nation.

But do you see what I am getting at here?

1. They won by outsourcing your job to China where people work for 1/10th of your wage.
2. They won by using what they did in #1 as a way to gain your support to further enact pro-1% legislation.

You are being used and played as a fool.  They don't really care about the immigrants and they don't care about you.  They only care about their own money and power.  They are the same people who caused the "problem" and they gained from that "problem" quite handsomely at that.

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#8 2019-03-14 00:20:10

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Here's something that will kill you.

I'm not really a big fan of immigration myself.  It's just that I see the real enemy as the billionaires who hired them and sold out America so they could get richer.  I see the immigrants as being a tool used by them just as they see the American worker as a tool.

I happen to see myself as closer to an immigrant than these billionaires who sold us out because, well, they are closer to us than them.  They were/are being used too.

I would LOVE to see America get back its manufacturing base.  I grew up in the Quad Cities in IL.  Both of my parents worked for John Deere.  I'm from a solidly blue collar family.  But I realize who REALLY sold us out and it wasn't Pedro from Mexico.  It was people like Trump as well as many politicians from both parties.

........................................................................

Phillip_McCavity
#9 2019-03-14 01:00:18

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

Here's something that will kill you.

I'm not really a big fan of immigration myself.  It's just that I see the real enemy as the billionaires who hired them and sold out America so they could get richer.  I see the immigrants as being a tool used by them just as they see the American worker as a tool.

I happen to see myself as closer to an immigrant than these billionaires who sold us out because, well, they are closer to us than them.  They were/are being used too.

I would LOVE to see America get back its manufacturing base.  I grew up in the Quad Cities in IL.  Both of my parents worked for John Deere.  I'm from a solidly blue collar family.  But I realize who REALLY sold us out and it wasn't Pedro from Mexico.  It was people like Trump as well as many politicians from both parties.

What rubbish.

Changing manufacturing technology, and changing global demand, has made our world different. But nobody "sold us out". They embraced new technologies.

I'm pretty sure the people working at Sylvania making vacuum tubes got really pissed at TI when they started making transistors and destroyed the market for tubes.

........................................................................

WithoutFroth
#10 2019-03-14 01:03:19

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

But do you see what I am getting at here?

1. They won by outsourcing your job to China where people work for 1/10th of your wage.
2. They won by using what they did in #1 as a way to gain your support to further enact pro-1% legislation.

You are being used and played as a fool.  They don't really care about the immigrants and they don't care about you.  They only care about their own money and power.  They are the same people who caused the "problem" and they gained from that "problem" quite handsomely at that.

Of course they did.  Why would you expect the 1% or the 99% not to act in their own best interests? What the fuq planet are you on?

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#11 2019-03-14 01:08:13

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Phillip_McCavity wrote:

What rubbish.

Changing manufacturing technology, and changing global demand, has made our world different. But nobody "sold us out". They embraced new technologies.

I'm pretty sure the people working at Sylvania making vacuum tubes got really pissed at TI when they started making transistors and destroyed the market for tubes.

They embraced $1 an hour or $2 an hour labor over our $20 an hour labor.  They then pocketed all the money they saved while our people ended up suffering.

Then they subverted the political system to brainwash large segments of the working class in order to become racists (hate as a tool of control) who support their agenda to further enrich themselves and increase their power.

This isn't about technology or even immigration really.  It's about exploitation. 

What the Bagger working class does not realize is that it is really the 99.9% versus the 0.1% and they have been brainwashed to support that 0.1%.  To be fair the Democrats aren't fully free either but right now the GOP is much more solidly on the side of the 0.1% than anyone.

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#12 2019-03-14 01:11:21

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

WithoutFroth wrote:

Of course they did.  Why would you expect the 1% or the 99% not to act in their own best interests? What the fuq planet are you on?

The 99% do not act in their own interests.  They are easily misdirected or brainwashed.  You hate the immigrant who was a tool of the 0.1% just like you were.  You even acknowledged the misdirection so you know it is happening yourself.  It just so happens that hate makes one easier to control.  If you used logic you would probably see the real enemy....

........................................................................

Phillip_McCavity
#13 2019-03-14 01:12:27

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

They embraced $1 an hour or $2 an hour labor over our $20 an hour labor.  They then pocketed all the money they saved while our people ended up suffering.

Suffering?

Those factory jobs were dirty and dangerous, and many did not pay very well. Lookup "Triangle Shirtwaist Fire".

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#14 2019-03-14 01:16:21

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

This is one of my problems with racism.  It's just a way of dividing you and controlling you.  In actuality that person with the "wrong" skin color you hate is probably way more like you than the people controlling you and playing you like a fool.

........................................................................

WithoutFroth
#15 2019-03-14 01:23:21

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

The 99% do not act in their own interests.  They are easily misdirected or brainwashed.  You hate the immigrant who was a tool of the 0.1% just like you were.  You even acknowledged the misdirection so you know it is happening yourself.  It just so happens that hate makes one easier to control.  If you used logic you would probably see the real enemy....

I see.  You know people's interests better than they know themselves.

Aside from the comically outrageous arrogance that implies, it is simply not true.

There's probably shyt going on in your life where you are acting sub-optimally.  There's other shyt in your life that you literally have no idea how to even begin to handle properly.  That's just you.  Now consider your close family.

But yeah... you know my interests better than I know myself.

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#16 2019-03-14 01:25:13

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Phillip_McCavity wrote:

Suffering?

Those factory jobs were dirty and dangerous, and many did not pay very well. Lookup "Triangle Shirtwaist Fire".

My father got a job at John Deere out of high school welding.  He worked full time as a wielder and made $80,000 - $100,000 a year with full benefits for out family.  No college at all.

My step father worked at a plant in a different city.  Most of the town was employed by them.  Well, one day they closed down the factory and moved to Mexico where they could pay the workers $2 an hour.

The midwest in particular was hurt bad by this.  That anger is part of why Trump was elected.  But my point is that sadly the very people responsible for the suffering are the ones they empowered further by voting for Trump.

Regarding your not understanding how the lack of those jobs creating "suffering", I'n not sure that you would ever understand.  From what I recall you grew up in a solidly white collar family and have worked white collar jobs all your life.  I think I caught that you were from Illinois?  But from the University community?  But you don't seem to have any knowledge of how entire towns were destroyed by the outsourcing.  Thousands and thousands of families.  And not all of them are going to be able to get a new job working for Google.

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#17 2019-03-14 01:31:52

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

WithoutFroth wrote:

I see.  You know people's interests better than they know themselves.

Aside from the comically outrageous arrogance that implies, it is simply not true.

There's probably shyt going on in your life where you are acting sub-optimally.  There's other shyt in your life that you literally have no idea how to even begin to handle properly.  That's just you.  Now consider your close family.

But yeah... you know my interests better than I know myself.

Well let me put it this way:

Do you think a factory worker who was laid off by some billionaire scumbag would like to know that they are supporting that same scumbag and enacting his agenda further?  Of course not.  And that is why there is so much humor in it.  It's amazing how much people are brainwashed and how easily it is done.

It'd not really arrogance.  It's just fact.  The Socialists weren't employing the illegal immigrants and they sure as hell weren't closing the U.S. plants so they could pocket the money they saved by outsourcing production to China and Mexico.  It was the factory owners.  The billionaire stockholders.  The same people they further empowered by voting for Trump and the GOP.

Do you REALLY think that building a wall is going to help?  Or even sending back all the immigrants?  They are just a tool.  The real problem is much higher up and they are your fellow citizens -- the same ones you support, the very same ones who sold you out.

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#18 2019-03-14 01:34:21

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

That wall?  It's just a symbol.  It's also a tool to further control you.  That's all it is.  Wake up.

........................................................................

WithoutFroth
#19 2019-03-14 01:40:00

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

Well let me put it this way:

Do you think a factory worker who was laid off by some billionaire scumbag would like to know that they are supporting that same scumbag and enacting his agenda further?  Of course not.  And that is why there is so much humor in it.  It's amazing how much people are brainwashed and how easily it is done.

It'd not really arrogance.  It's just fact.  The Socialists weren't employing the illegal immigrants and they sure as hell weren't closing the U.S. plants so they could pocket the money they saved by outsourcing production to China and Mexico.  It was the factory owners.  The billionaire stockholders.  The same people they further empowered by voting for Trump and the GOP.

Do you REALLY think that building a wall is going to help?  Or even sending back all the immigrants?  They are just a tool.  The real problem is much higher up and they are your fellow citizens -- the same ones you support, the very same ones who sold you out.

Again... your arrogance shines through.  You speak as if people only vote on one axis--economics.  The individual who was laid off at "Billionaire Inc" could know full well that the people at the top are making decisions to destroy his livelihood but still vote for him for a multitude of reason.  Perhaps the political opponent he is running against is even worse for his economic interest.  Perhaps the primary axis of the voter is on education or local environment preservation or religious views or mili7tary funding/support or some sort of personal connection or health related or shyt neither you or I could dream up in a million years.

It is truly mind boggling to me that people as arrogant as you even exist.

........................................................................

RockHardConservative
#20 2019-03-14 01:40:14

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

You got owned in the first reply stupid.  Just stop.

........................................................................

Phillip_McCavity
#21 2019-03-14 03:04:53

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

My father got a job at John Deere out of high school welding.  He worked full time as a wielder and made $80,000 - $100,000 a year with full benefits for out family.  No college at all.

These historical wages weren't nearly as high as you think. Relative prices of housing and health care were much lower, and people didn't use nearly as many services as they do today (you might have, for instance, changed your own oil).

I tried to look up the historical wages for John Deere welders, they were, of course, UAW controlled, but I couldn't find them. Today it is about $50,000 / yr, which is certainly in real terms lower.

Welding is dangerous. Not only do welders risk severe eye injury, burn hazard, and they tend to hurt their necks with head snap.

But its a great example. At the time your father had the job, hand welding was the order of the day for construction equipment. Today, your father's job would be oiling the robot. Welding robots operate for $2-3 / hr. They never have a health claim. They don't need time off. And they weld perfectly, every time.

This is the point. There are fewer jobs because of technology.

........................................................................

Phillip_McCavity
#22 2019-03-14 03:19:49

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

My step father worked at a plant in a different city.  Most of the town was employed by them.  Well, one day they closed down the factory and moved to Mexico where they could pay the workers $2 an hour.

The midwest in particular was hurt bad by this.  That anger is part of why Trump was elected.  But my point is that sadly the very people responsible for the suffering are the ones they empowered further by voting for Trump.

Regarding your not understanding how the lack of those jobs creating "suffering", I'n not sure that you would ever understand.  From what I recall you grew up in a solidly white collar family and have worked white collar jobs all your life.  I think I caught that you were from Illinois?  But from the University community?  But you don't seem to have any knowledge of how entire towns were destroyed by the outsourcing.  Thousands and thousands of families.  And not all of them are going to be able to get a new job working for Google.

I know (and have) considerably more experience than you think.

The thing you have to understand is that jobs are not a zero sum game. Those factories were going to close no matter what.

I've worked in high tech long enough to know that if the market doesn't work for your product, people are laid off. I've moved twice for work purposes and I am considering moving again. Its just what I need to do. And in those towns, that is exactly what happened. Either people moved out or the city reinvented itself (think Pittsburgh).

........................................................................

WithoutFroth
#23 2019-03-14 07:39:45

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Phillip_McCavity wrote:

I know (and have) considerably more experience than you think.

The thing you have to understand is that jobs are not a zero sum game. Those factories were going to close no matter what.

I've worked in high tech long enough to know that if the market doesn't work for your product, people are laid off. I've moved twice for work purposes and I am considering moving again. Its just what I need to do. And in those towns, that is exactly what happened. Either people moved out or the city reinvented itself (think Pittsburgh).

Where the fuq are you going to move to? A fuqing swamp in Arkansas?

........................................................................

anon user #2.1
#24 2019-03-15 01:46:29

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

Phillip_McCavity wrote:

I know (and have) considerably more experience than you think.

The thing you have to understand is that jobs are not a zero sum game. Those factories were going to close no matter what.

I've worked in high tech long enough to know that if the market doesn't work for your product, people are laid off. I've moved twice for work purposes and I am considering moving again. Its just what I need to do. And in those towns, that is exactly what happened. Either people moved out or the city reinvented itself (think Pittsburgh).

AI can take almost every job eventually.  Even programmer or network admin.  Who better to write code or administer the systems than another machine?

The fact is we are going to be forced to radically change our economic system or else we are basically going to have to start outright exterminating hundreds of millions of people.  AI is coming.

But this is all tangent to the topic.  The topic is about outsourcing and those who gave jobs to the immigrants.  It isn't about technology making workers obsolete.  In fact my step fathers job wasn't removed due to technology.  It was removed because they moved production to Mexico.

........................................................................

Phillip_McCavity
#25 2019-03-15 02:07:47

Re: I get a kick out of how dumb anti-immigration working class baggers are.

anon user #2.1 wrote:

But this is all tangent to the topic.  The topic is about outsourcing and those who gave jobs to the immigrants.  It isn't about technology making workers obsolete.  In fact my step fathers job wasn't removed due to technology.  It was removed because they moved production to Mexico.

I want to talk about the future of work, but that is a topic for a different thread, maybe I'll start one about that. Its fascinating.

Anyway, just for fun I started looking at jobs at John Deere. This one in particular is interesting. Its a welding job, but its not like what your Dad applied for. Look at the skills required.

https://jobs.deere.com/job/Ottumwa-Weld … 542633300/

Deere has been building factories in Mexico since 1950, so its not a new thing. What has changed is where their products sell, and how much labor of what kind is needed to produce them. Union rules may not permit them to simply retool and rehire a midwestern plant. Rising demand in other countries might make building equipment close to customers make more sense.

The fact is, to run a factory like in the 1960s with the same jobs would not be possible today. The amount of hand labor would not only be expensive, but humans cannot make things at the same tolerance machines can.

That is one of the reasons why car engines need a tune up every 100,000 miles as opposed to every 30,000 miles. The manufacturing tolerances and materials are just that much better.

........................................................................

Pages: 1 2